Hey Liz Trotta, can you please explain "raped too much"

Oliver, when I joined the Army, back in the Stone Age... there were no classes on rape or it's aftermath. I was not taught to expect rape. I was taught how to be a soldier. Ms Trotta's comment about being "raped too much" and Mr Paul's comment about "honest rape" are affronts to human dignity, not just to women in general. And Ms Trotta's comment is an especial affront to military perssonel everywhere.

Well, there you go--it's the woman's fault.

It's about whether there is too much rape. Most sane people would argue any rape is too much, which is why it appears inexplicable that women in combat are being written off in this scenario as collateral damage one need only address with rape counseling. Is $113 million the price tag for allowing women to serve under conditions that clearly have led to an otherwise unacceptable increase in the rate of violent rape all in the name of PC?

So, your solution is to simply not allow women in the military? That's what it sounds like. If a woman wants to serve her country, she should be able to without fearing being raped. Saying "we can't allow women in the military because they might get raped" is like saying "I won't let my child go to school because they might get molested." It doesn't solve the problem.

What it comes down to is educating males about rape, which is something our society is really poor about doing. We are much more likely to talk to our daughters about rape than to talk to our sons about it. And that is part of the problem.

If the men in the military are more prone to rape due to anger issues, there needs to be more counseling and anger management techniques taught to those men (ideally before it happens).

LOL. It's soooo….. stylish!!! and the price my dear... ? Well that's the price . Oh yes that's the price we must pay. Excellent logic.... No ...really. Retrain the men is always the answer. What ‘s the question.

So, your solution is to simply not allow women in the military?

Really is that what you think? You really think I or anybody has a solution to women being raped. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn't really make a comment that idiotic.

I'm looking at the facts here and making like captain obvious in observing the relationship of the incidence of rape to the circumstances wherein it occurs. Yeah I know, way too logical for some to digest.

Anyway, no liberal dip@!$%#tery is going to convince me that if there were such a thing as a solution to rape in the military that it would be through education and counseling. That's the kind of mentality that contributes to the problem rather than mitigates it.

Here is Hollywood's idea of a way to stop rape.

http://richwatch.net/vagina-horror/

BTW, where Stewart misses the mark in his silliness with respect to Santorum, is if men are supposed to be distracted by protecting women in combat, then why are they not protective of women in the bunk?

Here's what we should do...

Since men have so many problems with women and gays in the military... let's take MEN out of the military...

/snark

a solution to rape ?

stop bringing up boys to think with their dicks. using sex as a weapon. If a man can't control himself he's not much of a man.

There is no circumstance that mitigates rape. Only the ignorant think so. Lamely trying to justify rape. men who can't control themselves ? Those men need not be in society nor the military.

Since men have so many problems with women and gays in the military... let's take MEN out of the military...

LOL! That works for me ☺

On a serious note though...something meeds to be done about not just the sexual assault perpetuated on women in the service, but men too.

http://feministing.com/2011/04/07/sexual-assault-of-men-in-the-military/

I see a lot of people saying female troops should be treated differently, have different "special programs" have easier BCT standards, etc. And if you ask me, that's a dangerous and slippery slope. IMO, well meaning activist groups have unintentionally created a huge divide in the military by screaming for special programs, easier BCT and a bunch of other perks for women out of one side of their mouths, but then claiming there is "no difference" between them and their male counterparts out of the other side of their mouths.

On a serious note though...something meeds to be done about not just the sexual assault perpetuated on women in the service, but men too.

That's true. I knew a guy who was raped while in the service.

Male rape? Let me put it this way. I'm in the military and have access to weapons and have been trained to use them. Do you think I wouldn't use that weapon to deal with someone who tried to pull that sort of @!$%#?

That's rhetorical by the way.

Bad Fish,

Let me vote you up a hundred times!

I guess Fox just doesn't see this.

Voted up too!!!

we are trying out Fox News tactics today if you please....no wait that would be stupid

how does the entire context change, for one microsecond, the entirely obscene comment of raped to much???

it would be like saying Dumbya's lies were just little lies because of incomplete information, or the Tonkin Gulf action was just an innocent mistake,

you all can convince yourselves of just about anything....just @!$%#ing amazing

hey I can see Mars from my Moon Base

how does the entire context change, for one microsecond, the entirely obscene comment of raped to much???

That makes no sense and implies that you think there is such a thing as "raped just enough". Which I find obscene, to use your words.

You don't think a 64% increase in sexual assualts represents "too much rape"? Wow. I personally think one rape is "too much".

it’s strictly been a question of pressure from the feminists… You have this whole bureaucracy upon bureaucracy being built up with all kinds of levels of people to support women in the military who are now being raped too much.”

Pat- that's not her entire quote. In the ... area, she made a comment about more rape counselors and medical care for military women. Which brought her to the bureaucracy comment.

A very important portion of her comment that points to her main goal..too much bureaucracy due to women in the military...great support for her fellow humans!

Just in case:

“Now, what did they expect? These people are in close contact, the whole airing of this issue has never been done by Congress, it's strictly been a question of pressure from the feminists,” she said.

Trotta also said that the "feminists" wanted too much money to fund programs for sexual abuse victims. "You have this whole bureaucracy upon bureaucracy being built up with all kinds of levels of people to support women in the military who are now being raped too much," she told Shawn.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fox-news-contributor-liz-trotta-spike-sex-assault-military-expect-article-1.1022097#ixzz1mTQcZc1U

A very important portion of her comment that points to her main goal..too much bureaucracy due to women in the military...great support for her fellow humans!

Liz is right, Rachel. It HAS created too much bureaucracy. And bureaucracy is not a good thing when ANYONE has been raped (there are significant cases of male troops being sexually assaulted, too).

There used to be a time when if a female troop was raped, she could go immediately to her C.O., be sent instantly to sick call for medical and emotional assistance and then immediate legal recourse was taken.

In the "new" Military, because of the bureaucracy shoved on them, female troops are required to first abide by the 'buddy system'. If they don't do that, then any sexual assault gets tied up in the bureaucracy. Then, rather than getting immediate treatment, there is report after report after report.

All of this does, is discourage woman from reporting the sexual assault in the first place. And these regulations are a direct result of the Pentagon and Congress being pressured by activist groups that know nothing about the military to enact protocol that actually DAMAGES the ability for a female troop to seek assistance.

I agree with Liz. The bureaucracy these women face is ridiculous and it's the fault of (A) The Pentagon, (B) Congress and (C) Activist groups that have insisted that ridiculous "cover your ass" measures be put in place that actually DISCOURAGE women from reporting abuse in the first place.

ANY woman who has been raped should have the right to go immediately to an authority figure and report it. They shouldn't have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get there.

Trotta also said that the "feminists" wanted too much money to fund programs for sexual abuse victims.

And again, rachel...I agree with her. These women don't need money for "programs". They need immediate access to medical and emotional care.

With these 'programs' have come a ridiculous amount of hoops that the victims have to jump through. Forms. Paperwork. There is NOTHING in the military that a troop doesn't have to first "qualify" for. So now these women have to prove they used the buddy system. Then they have to be subjected to potentially humiliating medical exams. Then they have to fill out a form for a "program".

That's what the "feminists" are asking for..that the military provide medical and therapy for the rape victims...

Do you think that a woman that walks into a police station and says she was raped doesn't go through hoops either? Or exams or questioning?

It's the mentality of MEN towards women and rape victims that needs to be changed, not the women that choose to serve or just be left alone.

The buddy system is to new in the military. My ex-SIL entered in 1979, and the buddy system was in place then.

I know you have first hand knowledge of recent military, but ,it's the attitudes and conditioning of the men that really needs to change, not women.

That's what the "feminists" are asking for..that the military provide medical and therapy for the rape victims...

Actually, they aren't. Well they are...but not in an effective way. Which is better? That a female troop who is raped can go immediately to the Chaplain (if that's her choice) and seek assistance? Or that she sign up for a 'program'? Because right now, she can go immediately to the Chaplain, ask for help and get it.

If new "programs" are imposed, protocol comes with those 'programs'. Suddenly, you don't qualify for the program if you went to the Chaplain (you broke the chain of command). You don't qualify for the program if you weren't using the buddy system. You don't qualify for the program if you aren't willing to fill out the forms, wait for a spot in the program and jump through any other hoops.

Do you think that a woman that walks into a police station and says she was raped doesn't go through hoops either? Or exams or questioning?

Sure she does. But she gets IMMEDIATE attention. And the questioning she gets is used to get the attacker. (WHat was he wearing? How tall was he? etc). It's not "Did you take a shower afterward? Because that's not proper protocol. Did you got to your Chaplain first instead of your Sergeant? Because that's not proper protocol.

It's the mentality of MEN towards women and rape victims that needs to be changed, not the women that choose to serve or just be left alone.

No...it's the bureaucracy that needs to be changed. Do a google search of men being sexually assaulted in the military and let me know what you find.

The buddy system is to new in the military. My ex-SIL entered in 1979, and the buddy system was in place then.

I know it's not new. What IS new is that last year, it became "proper protocol" in putting together a chronological summary when reporting a sexual assault. That came with pressure on the Pentagon from activist groups to "do something" about the increase in sexual assaults. The Pentagon agreed to implement some rudimentary "programs", but due to the increased expense the program entails, they also set up protocol surrounding those programs. That's just normal military procedure. Suddenly, if you didn't use the buddy system at the time of the assault, you don't qualify for the program.

I know you have first hand knowledge of recent military, but ,it's the attitudes and conditioning of the men that really needs to change, not women.

I never said it WAS the women. Like Liz, I lay the blame at the feet of the Pentagon and Congress for caving to pressure without fully investigating statistics and other data, resulting in a ridiculous bureaucracy that punishes the rape victim....who isn't necessarily always a woman.

I didn't mean to imply that you said it was women...it's the mentality that says that, not you.

I understand what you're saying, but, I don't think that asking for medical/therapy is a protocol that will interrupt the existing one, it's an additional need. We give our military personnel both for PTSD and rape can cause PTDS-regardless of the sex of the victim.

*and, Pat, I really enjoy our conversations, good to know we can keep it "nice"*

I understand what you're saying, but, I don't think that asking for medical/therapy is a protocol that will interrupt the existing one, it's an additional need. We give our military personnel both for PTSD and rape can cause PTDS-regardless of the sex of the victim.

True. And in that case, the troop would have to go through the "new-and-not-so-improved" medboard (MEB) process. Something I am intimately familiar with.

Rebecca currently has a cut and dried medical issue that doesn't deal with the intricacies and emotional upheaval of rape or PTSD. Its a straight forward, diagnosed heart issue. An easy case. Know when she was placed on medical hold? April of 2011. Know when they started the MEB process? Last week. And it took a Congressional Inquiry to make that happen 10 full months after she was placed on hold status. Know how long the MEB process is going to take from the day it was started last week? A minumum of 120 days. Why so long? Protocol and process to get her the benefits and programs that well meaning activist groups said she should be entitled to.

We're setting up sexual assault victims for the same thing.

"Programs" aren't the answer. Streamlined protocol that allows the troop leeway on reporting and seeking medical attention as well as prosecution of the offender is.

*and, Pat, I really enjoy our conversations, good to know we can keep it "nice"*

Likewise, Rachel. =)

Liz is right, Rachel. It HAS created too much bureaucracy -PatN

You would know because you did your time too, right? If you're going to bring up your daughter as outside 'expert'. You know, the one who got an early discharge? I don't really believe that counts...no offense or anything.

In my experience, yes, rape does occur in the Armed Forces, and unsurprisingly, mostly when alcohol is involved. And there wasn't much of a bureaucracy involved, and the women I served beside had immediate access to care and support through their Chain of Command. In my experience, the accusation of rape is taken very seriously by senior NCO's and Officers alike.

They are not "required" to do the buddy system with the exception of off-duty r&r in foreign lands. Yours is a totally misinformed argument, Pat, that, quite frankly, I can write an entire paper on dismantling it piece by piece.

Fact is, this Fox News pawn made a misstatement, assuming to know things in the total darkness of ignorance. Once again serving as a mouthpiece and not much more, she echoed extreme conservative opinion in the guise of being an authority on the issue.

I have seen women who would make solid fighters and would have matched their male counterparts on the front. If they want to volunteer their services in that way, who is anyone to stop them?

You would know because you did your time too, right?

I know this as someone who is very familiar with the MEB process which is precisely what these women would have to go through. You ARE aware of the details that are being proposed, right? Many here don't seem to be. How 'bout you enlighten everyone with YOUR expertise, which you seem to be implying, far exceeds my own?

You know, the one who got an early discharge?

Wait. She was discharged? When did that happen? Or are you just insisting on continually damaging your own credibility with each sentence you write by pretending (A) You know what 'programs' are being proposed and (B) you know what's going on with other Viner's families?

I don't really believe that counts.

Considering it's a total and complete fabirication on your part, you would be correct in your "belief" that it doesn't cout. Really, SP...lying about other Viner's kids is the lowest of low...dotchya think? Especially since that kid is also a Viner. Be careful of that CoH line.

In my experience, yes, rape does occur in the Armed Forces, and unsurprisingly, mostly when alcohol is involved.

Did I say it didn't? Can you show me where I said that? I'll be waiting with breathless anticipation.

And there wasn't much of a bureaucracy involved,

Golly gosh gee whiz. I think that's EXACTLY what I said...No?

and the women I served beside had immediate access to care and support through their Chain of Command. In my experience, the accusation of rape is taken very seriously by senior NCO's and Officers alike.

Again...precisely what I said. I'd like to point out that you're talking PAST TENSE as well. When did you serve, just out of curiousity? Has it been since the new MEB regs were put into place Oct. of 2010?

They are not "required" to do the buddy system with the exception of off-duty r&r in foreign lands.

I'm calling BS. Even in AIT stateside, the buddy system is REQURED everywhere a female soldier goes. Hell, she can't even go to the PX without using the buddy system. Again...I want to know your qualifications for recent changes.

Fact is, this Fox News pawn made a misstatement, assuming to know things in the total darkness of ignorance. Once again serving as a mouthpiece and not much more, she echoed extreme conservative opinion in the guise of being an authority on the issue.

(face/palm)

Had you seen the entire segment, you would know that she was dissing the Pentagon and Congress for the bureaucracy they've created. Yep...that's realllll conservative. You would also know that she in no way, represented herself as an 'authority' on the issue like you claim. You continue to gobble up what the left wing blogs feed you and regurgitate it. No one can stop you.

I have seen women who would make solid fighters and would have matched their male counterparts on the front. If they want to volunteer their services in that way, who is anyone to stop them?

Wait a second. YOUR anecdotal evidence carries weight and shouldn't be questioned, but another Viner's actual experience as a woman in the military should be discounted? That's rich.

You would know because you did your time too, right?

I know this as someone who is very familiar with the MEB process which is precisely what these women would have to go through. You ARE aware of the details that are being proposed, right? Many here don't seem to be. How 'bout you enlighten everyone with YOUR expertise, which you seem to be implying, far exceeds my own?

You know, the one who got an early discharge?

Wait. She was discharged? When did that happen? Or are you just insisting on continually damaging your own credibility with each sentence you write by pretending (A) You know what 'programs' are being proposed and (B) you know what's going on with other Viner's families?

I don't really believe that counts.

Considering it's a total and complete fabirication on your part, you would be correct in your "belief" that it doesn't cout. Really, SP...lying about other Viner's kids is the lowest of low...dotchya think? Especially since that kid is also a Viner. Be careful of that CoH line.

In my experience, yes, rape does occur in the Armed Forces, and unsurprisingly, mostly when alcohol is involved.

Did I say it didn't? Can you show me where I said that? I'll be waiting with breathless anticipation.

And there wasn't much of a bureaucracy involved,

Golly gosh gee whiz. I think that's EXACTLY what I said...No?

and the women I served beside had immediate access to care and support through their Chain of Command. In my experience, the accusation of rape is taken very seriously by senior NCO's and Officers alike.

Again...precisely what I said. I'd like to point out that you're talking PAST TENSE as well. When did you serve, just out of curiousity? Has it been since the new MEB regs were put into place Oct. of 2010?

They are not "required" to do the buddy system with the exception of off-duty r&r in foreign lands.

I'm calling BS. Even in AIT stateside, the buddy system is REQURED everywhere a female soldier goes. Hell, she can't even go to the PX witho

Seems Newsvine has a new error code of "Ragamuffin". I wonder if these means they got rid of dear ol' "Bubblegum"?

Seems Newsvine has a new error code of "Ragamuffin". I wonder if these means they got rid of dear ol' "Bubblegum"?

Nope. I had a bubblegum on another post...then the dang thing double posted...so, I edited the second and wrote *bubblegum*

;-)

I'm calling BS. Even in AIT stateside, the buddy system is REQURED everywhere a female soldier goes. Hell, she can't even go to the PX without using the buddy system. Again...I want to know your qualifications for recent changes.

Must you really beat your head against the proverbial wall? If you insist...

Maybe in Basic and AT you were required, yeah, but that's all part of the game for new recruits. Just what, or rather, who is your source, anyway? A suspicion tells me I already know. I won't name names.

Wait a second. YOUR anecdotal evidence carries weight and shouldn't be questioned, but another Viner's actual experience as a woman in the military should be discounted? That's rich.

Because there's this. I wonder who you're now speaking of? Not really, because I already know. And before you ask, this isn't something I'm going to get in with you (I've seen where it tends to lead). You can't help bringing her up, can you? Just...let it go, Pat. Let it go.

She isn't everything.

I tried to give a formal argument here, but all you can do is sling personal attacks. If you you don't want to play like an adult, I don't want to play at all.

Maybe in Basic and AT you were required, yeah, but that's all part of the game for new recruits.

So in otherwords, you are officially retracting your previous FALSE statement that:

They are not "required" to do the buddy system with the exception of off-duty r&r in foreign lands.

Now. Since you're the 'expert'...more of an expert that a female in the military...tell us. During what part of the military experience do most sexual assaults occur?

As a final note...I believe the author of this article asked you to quit making it personal. Yet you decide to disresepect that and continue to act compulsively obsessive with Rebecca. In an article about the rape of female soldiers, no less. That's a hair creepy

“I think they have actually discovered there is a difference between men and women. And the sexual abuse report says that there has been, since 2006, a 64% increase in violent sexual assaults. Now, what did they expect? These people are in close contact, the whole airing of this issue has never been done by Congress, it’s strictly been a question of pressure from the feminists.”

Trotta added to her comments by claiming that feminists have asked for way too much money for the funding of programs for victims of sexual abuse and other sexual crimes. “You have this whole bureaucracy upon bureaucracy being built up with all kinds of levels of people to support women in the military who are now being raped too much,” Trotta said.

http://www.jdjournal.com/2012/02/15/liz-trotta-makes-comments-about-rape-in-military/

As I have said - I don't recall being told about rape, when I was AD. I wasn't told to expect rape. I was told what to do should I be raped, however. And in the 80's... there wasn't much. I thank the Gods that women now have more resources.

Thanks for that Brite........now it an obvious attack job. KJ takes her out of context completely. All Trotta said was women are are being raped at a high rate in the military. The real story is the amount of aid being given to these victims. Trotta seems to think there is too much bureaucracy involved in the aid/support.

"raped too much".......this headline was raped by this seeder.

See post 1 - where I said I go for the absurd and make it more absurd.....

What do you find more "absurd" kj? The fact that Trotta accidentally mangled a sentence with the words "raped too much" and was obviously referring to the 64% increase in rape?

Or that the government and activist groups are creating layer upon layer of bureaucracy making it more difficult for military rape victims to get assistance, not less difficult?

Because it would appear you focused solely on the first, superficially twisting someone's words and admitting you took them out of context to score political points, rather than focusing on the very real absurdity of the bureaucracy these victims have to face.

quit writing BS attack post.....why would you even want to take some ones word out of context??? Just because you feel threatened by FOX NEWS you will take every chance to denounce their message.......and even make them up if none exist.....asin this case. You have either been watching too much MSNBC or payiny too much attention to Media Matters. I enjoy humor in politics but does not apply here........sorry.....a poorly choosen topic in my opinion. Keep trying though......its election year.....,.should be plenty of opportunities

From DoD - (sorry about the pdf) - the stats start on pg 74 of the pdf, page 64 if you print it out... http://www.sapr.mil/media/pdf/reports/DoD_Fiscal_Year_2010_Annual_Report_on_Sexual_Assault_in_the_Military.pdf

For incidents that occurred prior to the changes made to the UCMJ on October 1, 2007, sexual assault included rape, nonconsensual sodomy, indecent assault, and attempts to commit these acts. Under the SAPR Policy, there is no time limit as to when someone can report the commission of a sexual assault to a SARC. Thus, the Department may have received reports in FY10 on assaults that occurred prior to October 2007.

In FY10, there were a total of 3,158 reports of sexual assault involving Service members, which represents a 2-percent decrease from FY09.